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Every startup wants to create a category. This is often a mistake. Or at least it’s prioritized too early by many founders and marketers. Ryan Carlson, longtime CMO at Okta, explains why this falls flat with customers and what to do instead.

I love technology products, and building the companies who make them.

Ryan Carlson

Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer at Wiz

Every startup wants to create a category. This is often a mistake. Or at least it’s prioritized too early by many founders and marketers. Ryan Carlson, longtime CMO at Okta, explains why this falls flat with customers and what to do instead.


Ryan Carlson (ex-Wiz, Okta): Category Creation is Overrated

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Okta’s CMO for 5+ years, Ryan Carlson, says marketing’s guiding light should be the company mission and values. Marketing’s job is to tell the story of the company, not to merely promote the product or drive leads into the top of a funnel. Authentic marketing is rooted in the BIG questions. Why does this company exist? Who should care about that and why?Today’s episode will help you:<ul><li>Understand this strategic approach to marketing</li><li>See the impact strategic marketing has on your audience</li><li>How to hire mission/values-aligned marketers</li><li>Leverage Ryan’s playbook for company storytelling by working directly with customers</li></ul> Key Takeaways: <ul><li>[00:19&nbsp;-&nbsp;03:37] Introduction to Ryan Carlson, and thoughts on company culture in the world of marketing</li><li>[03:44&nbsp;-&nbsp;06:53] What should define culture is the mission, values, and vision</li><li>[06:54&nbsp;-&nbsp;10:00] Imparting importance, and showing why culture mattered at Okta</li><li>[10:02&nbsp;-&nbsp;13:32] Authenticity, avoiding hyperbole and marketing BS</li><li>[13:43&nbsp;-&nbsp;16:10] Who do you hire to marketing leadership to operate more authentically?</li><li>[16:13&nbsp;-&nbsp;18:18] Hiring true believers, and avoiding a "customer's wrong" mentality with product market fit</li><li>[19:26&nbsp;-&nbsp;22:45] Understanding why people like the product and the people behind it</li><li>[22:48&nbsp;-&nbsp;25:40] Combining pen to paper with mission, values, and vision</li><li>[25:42&nbsp;-&nbsp;28:27] Storytelling and presentations, how they impact retention</li><li>[28:30&nbsp;-&nbsp;32:26] Story and history of your company is different</li><li>[32:32&nbsp;-&nbsp;35:37] Figuring out if a company operates by its values as a candidate</li></ul> Mentioned in this episode:<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/newsletter/#.YfRAM-rMIuU" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sign up for OpenView's weekly newsletter</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryancarlson/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ryan Carlson, Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer at Wiz</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryancarlson/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><a href="https://twitter.com/ryantcarlson?lang=en" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>Subscribe to&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaVvQTEaCyt2bbkoAh7wPyg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Blake Bartlett on YouTube</a>.Podcast produced by&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView</a>.View our&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/blog" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">blog&nbsp;</a>for more context/inspiration.<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/openview-/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Linkedin</a><a href="https://twitter.com/openviewventure" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Twitter</a><a href="https://www.instagram.com/openviewventure/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Instagram</a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OpenViewVenture/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Facebook</a>

Okta’s CMO for 5+ years, Ryan Carlson, says marketing’s guiding light should be the company mission and values. Marketing’s job is to tell the story of the company, not to merely promote the product or drive leads into the top of a funnel. Authentic marketing is rooted in the BIG questions. Why does this company exist? Who should care about that and why?


Ryan Carlson (ex-Wiz, Okta): Company Values = Marketing Message

Okta’s CMO for 5+ years, Ryan Carlson, says marketing’s guiding light should be the company mission and values. Marketing’s job is to tell the story of the company, not to merely promote the product or drive leads into the top of a funnel. Authentic marketing is rooted in the BIG questions. Why does this company exist? Who should care about that and why?Today’s episode will help you:
Understand this strategic approach to marketing
See the impact strategic marketing has on your audience
How to hire mission/values-aligned marketers
Leverage Ryan’s playbook for company storytelling by working directly with customers



Raj says that most of the PLG advice out there today is missing a key foundational point: data. Many PLG companies still rely on traditional sales &amp; marketing software that keeps data in silos. The key to winning in PLG starts with your data infrastructure, and wiring it up early helps you scale later. Mentioned in this episode:<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/newsletter/#.YfRAM-rMIuU" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sign up for OpenView's weekly newsletter</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajsarkar/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Raj Sarkar, CMO &amp; Advisor</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajsarkar/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><a href="https://twitter.com/rajsarkar?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>Subscribe to&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaVvQTEaCyt2bbkoAh7wPyg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Blake Bartlett on YouTube</a>.Podcast produced by&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView</a>.View our&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/blog" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">blog&nbsp;</a>for more context/inspiration.<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/openview-/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Linkedin</a><a href="https://twitter.com/openviewventure" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Twitter</a><a href="https://www.instagram.com/openviewventure/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Instagram</a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OpenViewVenture/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Facebook</a>

I just transitioned from the Chief Megaphone Operator to Advisor of 1Password. At 1Password I was part of the c-suite that raised $920M from top-notch VC-firms, executives, and artists for a valuation of $6.7B; was recognized as one of the top 100 Private Cloud companies by Forbes; exceeded 100,000 B2B customers (and many more individuals and families) with triple digit revenues and high double-digit revenue growth; launched the first 1P commercial (search "cybersecurity skincare"); and built out the marketing organization from the ground up. 

Raj Sarkar

CMO, Advisor | Google, Atlassian Alum

Raj says that most of the PLG advice out there today is missing a key foundational point: data. Many PLG companies still rely on traditional sales & marketing software that keeps data in silos. The key to winning in PLG starts with your data infrastructure, and wiring it up early helps you scale later.


Raj Sarkar (ex-1Password, Atlassian): PLG Data Infrastructure

B2B marketers usually overlook brand in their marketing mix. Brand marketing is only for CPG companies, right? Raj makes the case that brand marketing is not optional, if you want to win your category. But brand marketing isn’t just buying a Super Bowl ad. Before you think about channels, you need to define your brand identity and build awareness. Done right, brand marketing can become an infinitely scalable strategy to drive growth. Key Takeaways: <ul><li>[01:19&nbsp;-&nbsp;04:05] What exactly is brand marketing? And why is it important?</li><li>[04:06&nbsp;-&nbsp;05:41] Why we should dive deep into brand</li><li>[05:41&nbsp;-&nbsp;07:36] Differentiation in branding, infinitely scalable</li><li>[07:39&nbsp;-&nbsp;11:38] When to start thinking about brand, SEO, and the funnel</li><li>[13:36&nbsp;-&nbsp;15:36] Determining your mission and values, brand attributes</li><li>[15:36&nbsp;-&nbsp;17:26] Speaking ways that is consistent with identity</li><li>[17:28&nbsp;-&nbsp;19:45] Balancing different brand attributes in messaging</li><li>[19:47&nbsp;-&nbsp;21:04] House of brands or a branded house</li><li>[22:08&nbsp;-&nbsp;25:31] Amplifying brand marketing and the channels of choice</li><li>[25:38&nbsp;-&nbsp;28:58] Tracking efficacy in print and non-digital formats with modern tools</li><li>[28:58&nbsp;-&nbsp;30:47] Where to take action on Raj's advice</li></ul> Mentioned in this episode:<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/newsletter/#.YfRAM-rMIuU" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sign up for OpenView's weekly newsletter</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajsarkar/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Raj Sarkar, CMO &amp; Advisor</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajsarkar/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><a href="https://twitter.com/rajsarkar?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>Subscribe to&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaVvQTEaCyt2bbkoAh7wPyg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Blake Bartlett on YouTube</a>.Podcast produced by&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView</a>.View our&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/blog" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">blog&nbsp;</a>for more context/inspiration.<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/openview-/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Linkedin</a><a href="https://twitter.com/openviewventure" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Twitter</a><a href="https://www.instagram.com/openviewventure/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Instagram</a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OpenViewVenture/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Facebook</a>

B2B marketers usually overlook brand in their marketing mix. Brand marketing is only for CPG companies, right? Raj makes the case that brand marketing is not optional, if you want to win your category. But brand marketing isn’t just buying a Super Bowl ad. Before you think about channels, you need to define your brand identity and build awareness. Done right, brand marketing can become an infinitely scalable strategy to drive growth.


Raj Sarkar (ex-1Password, Atlassian): B2B Brand Marketing

B2B marketers usually overlook brand in their marketing mix. Brand marketing is only for CPG companies, right? Raj makes the case that brand marketing is not optional, if you want to win your category.

But brand marketing isn’t just buying a Super Bowl ad. Before you think about channels, you need to define your brand identity and build awareness. Done right, brand marketing can become an infinitely scalable strategy to drive growth.


Chris was Snowflake’s first sales hire, and he built the commercial business from $0 to $1B+ ARR. What is the optimal relationship between a VP Sales and the Founder/CEO during this journey? Many sales leaders solely focus on hitting their number. That’s certainly important, but sales also plays a pivotal role in product strategy by acting as the voice of the customer. The goal is to achieve a collaborative push-pull relationship with founders and sales leaders that drives more customer value.&nbsp; Key Takeaways: <ul><li>[00:34&nbsp;-&nbsp;01:39] Feedback and writing SQL</li><li>[01:39&nbsp;-&nbsp;02:47] Founders interacting with customers to make product adjustments</li><li>[02:47&nbsp;-&nbsp;03:25] Pivoting based on feedback</li><li>[03:25&nbsp;-&nbsp;04:38] Early days are less about profit, more about scaling and feedback</li></ul>

Sales Leader with experience in Storage, Analytics, & Security.

Specialties: Data analytics, Data Platform, back-up, Security, sales, sales management, business intelligence, public cloud, hybrid cloud, ETL, Big Data, Hadoop, Access Governance, Identity Management, Provisioning, SSO, AWS, Azure, GCP

Chris Degnan

Chief Revenue Officer at Snowflake

Chris was Snowflake’s first sales hire, and he built the commercial business from $0 to $1B+ ARR. What is the optimal relationship between a VP Sales and the Founder/CEO during this journey? Many sales leaders solely focus on hitting their number. That’s certainly important, but sales also plays a pivotal role in product strategy by acting as the voice of the customer. The goal is to achieve a collaborative push-pull relationship with founders and sales leaders that drives more customer value. 


Chris Degnan (Snowflake): VP Sales vs Founder/CEO Relationship

Chris was Snowflake’s first sales hire, and he built the commercial business from $0 to $1B+ ARR. What is the optimal relationship between a VP Sales and the Founder/CEO during this journey?

Many sales leaders solely focus on hitting their number. That’s certainly important, but sales also plays a pivotal role in product strategy by acting as the voice of the customer. The goal is to achieve a collaborative push-pull relationship with founders and sales leaders that drives more customer value. 



Chris is CRO at Snowflake and has been leading sales there for 9 years. He’s helped grow from $0 to $1B+ ARR. He’s clearly a software sales legend. So how is Chris coaching his reps and leaders during today’s recessionary environment? What should you change about your sales playbook in order to keep winning in a down market?&nbsp; This is the perfect episode for sales reps, sales leaders, and founders/CEOs who are looking for advice on how to navigate selling in a downturn.&nbsp; Key Takeaways: <ul><li>[01:58&nbsp;-&nbsp;03:52] The mindset and action plan of a great sales reps in a recession</li><li>[03:52&nbsp;-&nbsp;05:37] A passion and conviction for what you're selling</li><li>[05:42&nbsp;-&nbsp;07:09] Addressing specific challenges of today, adding value, saving money</li><li>[07:16&nbsp;-&nbsp;10:29] Understanding customer pain in difficult macro environments, solving for competitor gaps</li><li>[10:34&nbsp;-&nbsp;13:03] Don't waste people's time, have a genuine conversation</li><li>[13:06&nbsp;-&nbsp;15:27] The business value of Snowflake's model</li><li>[15:28&nbsp;-&nbsp;18:42] Increasing sales, driving cost savings and business value</li><li>[19:38&nbsp;-&nbsp;26:34] How sales reps and leadership should be thinking about success</li><li>[26:35&nbsp;-&nbsp;31:27] Pipeline generation and sales success</li><li>[31:26&nbsp;-&nbsp;32:45] It's easy to blame others</li><li>[32:45&nbsp;-&nbsp;36:27] Dealing with smaller budgets and cultivating empathy and problem solving</li><li>[36:27&nbsp;-&nbsp;39:14] Preparing for 2023 budgets and planning differently</li></ul>

Chris is CRO at Snowflake and has been leading sales there for 9 years. He’s helped grow from $0 to $1B+ ARR. He’s clearly a software sales legend. So how is Chris coaching his reps and leaders during today’s recessionary environment? What should you change about your sales playbook in order to keep winning in a down market? 

This is the perfect episode for sales reps, sales leaders, and founders/CEOs who are looking for advice on how to navigate selling in a downturn. 



Chris Degnan (Snowflake): Selling in a Recession

Today’s shorter episode is a follow up to my longer conversation with Alex Su, Head of Community at Ironclad. In that conversation, we talk about his TikTok channel @legaltechbro and how he developed a personal brand strategy that compliments Ironclad’s community-focused GTM strategy. So if you haven’t heard that yet, go check it out now. In today’s episode, we dive into TikTok more specifically and why you shouldn’t overlook this huge new channel. Mentioned in this episode:<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/newsletter/#.YfRAM-rMIuU" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sign up for OpenView's weekly newsletter</a><a href="https://www.heyitsalexsu.com/about-me" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alex Su, @legaltechbro</a><a href="https://ironcladapp.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ironclad</a><a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@legaltechbro?lang=en" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">TikTok</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-su/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><a href="http://heyitsalexsu/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>Subscribe to&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaVvQTEaCyt2bbkoAh7wPyg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Blake Bartlett on YouTube</a>.Podcast produced by&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView</a>.View our&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/blog" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">blog&nbsp;</a>for more context/inspiration.<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/openview-/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Linkedin</a><a href="https://twitter.com/openviewventure" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Twitter</a><a href="https://www.instagram.com/openviewventure/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Instagram</a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OpenViewVenture/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Facebook</a>

Alex is a former lawyer who now works at the cutting edge of legal technology. Currently, he's the Head of Community Development at Ironclad, a contracts technology company backed by Accel, Sequoia, and other leading investors. Alex is also @legaltechbro on Tik Tok, where he makes silly videos poking fun at the legal industry.

Previously, Alex was an associate at Sullivan & Cromwell and clerked for a federal judge. He graduated from Northwestern Law, where he was an editor of the law review and the student commencement speaker. In his free time Alex writes a weekly column on Above The Law. 

For more of Alex's stories about his journey through law and legal tech, subscribe to his Substack: itsofftherecord.substack.com

Alex Su, @legaltechbro

Content creator, former lawyer, writer

Today’s shorter episode is a follow up to my longer conversation with Alex Su, Head of Community at Ironclad. In that conversation, we talk about his TikTok channel @legaltechbro and how he developed a personal brand strategy that compliments Ironclad’s community-focused GTM strategy. So if you haven’t heard that yet, go check it out now. In today’s episode, we dive into TikTok more specifically and why you shouldn’t overlook this huge new channel.


Alex Su (Ironclad): TikTok for B2B

Alex is big on TikTok under the handle @legaltechbro. He has quickly become one of the biggest influencers in the entire legaltech industry. How? 15 second video skits poking fun at the legal profession. It’s a counterintuitive strategy on its face, but it’s working in a big way. Alex lays out his journey and his playbook. Conversation Highlights:		[00:10&nbsp;-&nbsp;01:36] Introduction to Alex Su		[01:40&nbsp;-&nbsp;03:11] Alex Su's personal brand and strategy for his channel @legaltechbro		[03:11&nbsp;-&nbsp;05:50] Going from a lawyer, to sales, to a content creator with a ton of influence		[05:51&nbsp;-&nbsp;07:12] The video that blew up		[07:12&nbsp;-&nbsp;09:41] Speak to the things you care about and that they care about		[09:43&nbsp;-&nbsp;11:26] Resonating authentically vs thought leadership		[11:33&nbsp;-&nbsp;13:49] Relating to friction, and layering in what a company does by focusing on the problem		[13:50&nbsp;-&nbsp;15:37] How does @legaltechbro fit into Alex's daily role at Ironclad		[15:37&nbsp;-&nbsp;18:02] How does making a TikTok turn into community dinners and connectivity in the buyer's journey?		[18:03&nbsp;-&nbsp;20:04] Connecting in a genuine human way on social		[21:03&nbsp;-&nbsp;24:50] What's the business value, budget, and the ROI? Answering the skeptic's questions.		[24:50&nbsp;-&nbsp;27:18] Considering content's effect on inbound marketing		[27:19&nbsp;-&nbsp;29:35] Exploring ideas, realizing when nobody is doing the idea it may be brilliant		[29:37&nbsp;-&nbsp;32:27] Where to begin? Select the right platform for your audience. Mentioned in this episode:<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/newsletter/#.YfRAM-rMIuU" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sign up for OpenView's weekly newsletter</a><a href="https://www.heyitsalexsu.com/about-me" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alex Su, @legaltechbro</a><a href="https://ironcladapp.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ironclad</a><a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@legaltechbro?lang=en" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">TikTok</a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-su/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><a href="http://heyitsalexsu/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>Subscribe to&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaVvQTEaCyt2bbkoAh7wPyg" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Blake Bartlett on YouTube</a>.Podcast produced by&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView</a>.View our&nbsp;<a href="https://openviewpartners.com/blog" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">blog&nbsp;</a>for more context/inspiration.<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/openview-/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Linkedin</a><a href="https://twitter.com/openviewventure" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Twitter</a><a href="https://www.instagram.com/openviewventure/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Instagram</a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OpenViewVenture/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">OpenView on Facebook</a>

Alex is big on TikTok under the handle @legaltechbro. He has quickly become one of the biggest influencers in the entire legaltech industry. How? 15 second video skits poking fun at the legal profession. It’s a counterintuitive strategy on its face, but it’s working in a big way. Alex lays out his journey and his playbook.


Recent Episodes

SEASON 11

Ryan Carlson (ex-Wiz, Okta): Company Values = Marketing Message

Raj Sarkar (ex-1Password, Atlassian): PLG Data Infrastructure

Raj Sarkar (ex-1Password, Atlassian): B2B Brand Marketing

Chris Degnan (Snowflake): VP Sales vs Founder/CEO Relationship

Chris Degnan (Snowflake): Selling in a Recession

Alex Su (Ironclad): TikTok for B2B

Alex Su (Ironclad): Personal Brand + Community Playbook

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